Kendrick Lamar being interviewed by SZA was not on our bingo cards but here we are.
Haarpers describes Lamar and SZA as two of the world’s biggest superstars, used to commanding stadiums full of fans. Lamar is the MC who many would argue keeps the soul of hip-hop alive and Kendrick described SZA as someone who he loves and respects because she is able to fully express herself in the music.
The two kick off the interview with a bang, SZA asking Kendrick if he is mentally Ill.
She folds into a low velvet armchair, and before anyone else can speak, she turns to Lamar and says, “Are you mentally ill?” Lamar’s face lights up and he laughs.
SZA explained why she asked Kendrick that, and funny enough like everything this year, it’s because of Katt Williams.
Read below:
We shot a movie last night. I’ve never shot a movie before, so I was freaking out. It’s a lot of being scared to be myself. I’m either gonna pretend it never happened or not show up to the premiere.
I met Katt Williams [on set]. He told me I was mentally ill, like, as a compliment. He was like, “Sa, I believe you might have some mental—”
And I was like, “Illness?”
And he was like, “Yes.” He said, “Oh, welcome.”
I want to ask you about your mental health. Do you feel like you suffer from mental illness or experience it ever? Or do you just feel like you’re in a multitude of feelings and you’re not putting a label on it?
KENDRICK LAMAR: I grew up with that term. I was hearing it when I was five, six years old.
S: So you identify with it but not as it.
KL: My whole thing is, it’s all experience. I say some shit on a record and identify with a moment, and then I don’t identify with it anymore. That’s just growth for me. All that shit is subjective.
S: It’s giving self-therapy.
SZA also asked Kendrick about his spiritual practices:
S: It’s very honest. Speaking of honesty and ego, have you done ayahuasca?
KL: I haven’t done it.
S: What? I wonder how you’re arriving at all of these conclusions. I want to talk to you about your spiritual practices. How many spiritual practices contribute to your day-to-day?
KL: All day, every day.
S: All day is ceremony?
KL: Ain’t no bullshit. Ain’t no cliché. But I literally talk to God. Like, it’s to a point where I’ll be starting to think I’m going crazy. But then He has to remind me, “No, this is really me.”
My early-morning practice is that I have to run. When I started running, that’s where I started to understand. There was this threshold of pain in the spirituality for me. I remember my shins was aching and I was like, I got one mile to go. Then I get whispers and downloads and start talking about shit that I want to know about. And next thing I’m three miles in, four miles in. I wake up and do that shit every day.
S: Loss of self … you have to break yourself.
KL: I have to.
S: I’m grateful for the God tea. Sidebar, what do you feel like your top three contributing factors to self-transformation in the last few years have been?
KL: The power of honesty and being honest with myself, perspective about the person sitting across from me, and learning that vulnerability is not a weakness. That last one probably been one I’m still developing.
Kendrick says self development has been the hardest for him and it is due to his childhood.
We talk about our childhood. I hate going back to that. It’s traumatizing. My pops, he was tough. He was militant, as far as every day you are expected to go to work, take care of your family, get back up to do it all over again. Being-a-man type shit, right? And he never showed no weakness. He never showed any emotion that could garner a one-up from the person sitting across from him. And I learned to experience that, not knowing I had them same traits, right?
But for what I do, there is certainly no growth without vulnerability. If I understood the power of vulnerability earlier, I could have had more depth and more reach to the guys that was around me in the neighborhood coming up.
You know, our parents, they never had these outlets to express themselves the way they wanted to. I’ve always looked at us as somewhat of a beacon of hope [for them].
He did not spend too much time on that part but instead asked SZA how her mother feels about SZA’s self expression.
I always wanted to know, how does your mom feel about your self-expression?- he says
SZA replied:
You know, my mom grew up dark-skinned in the ’50s. My mom integrated schools in St. Louis. She made herself smaller to be polite and nonproblematic Audrey. And growing up in the burbs where we were one of the few Black families, she kind of passed that to me. She’s developed this delightful energy that she really, truly does have. But also I feel like deep down, she really needs to beat some ass and she’ll feel better.
When she told me about how she spends so much time monitoring herself … people be like, “Oh yeah, we are our ancestors’ wildest dreams” when you talking about “It’s time to vote.”
But I’m my ancestors’ wildest dream because I can be a bitch and I’m okay with that. Because my mom wasn’t allowed to be a bitch in her space or in white spaces. And I feel like that’s my duty to literally get in here and be like, “I’m gonna do what I want.”
And I feel like my mom at first was really uncomfortable with me saying crass things and behaving in a certain way. And she was embarrassed, even though she was proud. And then something happened where it started to free her.
She started moving things around in the house, designing the house, and being free. She didn’t grow up with money or anything. So it’s so scary for her to think about renovating a crib or having something for herself. She never even imagined what her dream house could be. So it’s like it scared her. It fucked her up. She was upset and embarrassed, but now she’s, like, freed-by-proxy type shit.
KL: You gave her that.
S: And she gave it to me.
About his hit single “Not Like Us”
We expected SZA to touch on Kendricks recent squabble with Drake but we were not sure how she would approach it, considering her ‘relationship with Drake’.
S: Can I ask you a hypermasculine question? You can also tell me to shut the fuck up. What does “Not Like Us” mean to you?
KL: [Laughing] Not like us? Not like us is the energy of who I am, the type of man I represent. Now, if you identify with the man that I represent …
S: Break the man down for me.
KL: This man has morals, he has values, he believes in something, he stands on something. He’s not pandering.
He’s a man who can recognize his mistakes and not be afraid to share the mistakes and can dig deep down into fear-based ideologies or experiences to be able to express them without feeling like he’s less of a man.
If I’m thinking of “Not Like Us,” I’m thinking of me and whoever identifies with that.
S: Now, can I say something else in that realm, or you want me to get away from that? Can I ask you something else?
KL: Is it mean?
S: Nooooo! It’s more so like, I thought it was really interesting that there was any consensus at all that you might be an angry individual.
For me, I don’t find that any energy that comes from you comes from an angry place. And actually, the last hour and change pretty much solidifies that it’s almost from a yogic, monklike place. So when you feel the surge of energy in records like that, where is that root? Is it anger?
KL: I don’t believe I’m an angry person. But I do believe in love and war, and I believe they both need to exist. And my awareness of that allows me to react to things but not identify with them as who I am. Just allowing them to exist and allowing them to flow through me. That’s what I believe.
S: I’m gonna quit while I’m ahead, before I say something crazy.
Read the entire interview here.
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